David Earl Interview
Interview of David Earl
Date of Interview: March 24, 2004
Interviewer: Anthony Roselle
Transcriber: Amanda Carl
Q: Tell us a little something about your background, your degrees and your current profession?
DE: Ok, I graduated from Cook Landscape Architecture program in'76, three years after Cook College, I guess, became Cook College. I got a bachelor's degree. I worked for New Jersey Department of Transportation. That's not my first job; I worked for landscape contractor during my first two years here and my first two years after graduation. Then I worked somewhere else for a few years and then I got a job here at NJDT. I've been there for 24 years in my profession, which is unusual. Background: got married the August after I graduated. I graduated May of ‘76 and got married August 7th.
Q: Now, you said something particularly interesting about the getting married event. What was that again? Something about going back and doing it again? If you could go back and do it again?
DE: If I could go back and do it again? Oh! You're going to incriminate me here!
Q: Where did you transfer from?
DE: I started in ‘71 at the Rutgers campus in the engineering program, particularly electrical engineering. The first year is very general so you really don't start to specialize until your sophomore year and that was ‘71. I had some academic problems back then so I was asked to leave or change my major. So I changed my major and transferred to Cook College . I questioned my advisor, who happened to be Roy de Boer at that time when I got here, asking why anyone would want to be a landscape architect or landscaping in general. I had been working for my father's cousin for several summers at a garden center and I got to know the people. It was interesting and it was different from engineering. I thought it would be a fun choice so I stuck that out. It was rough at first because it was different than engineering. It's a mixture of social and natural sciences and art.
Q: Ok, so you transferred here for Landscape Architecture. You weren't compelled to that, you didn't go to school for Landscape Architecture originally?
DE: No.
Q: So now you're here, it's the first year; you chose the natural resource curriculum?
DE: Well, back then it was just Landscape Architecture. The curriculum wasn't laid out the way it is today. You don't do environmental design and Landscape Architecture with a concentration. It was just Landscape Architecture and next to that was environmental engineering.
Q: OK, you were a commuter, correct?
DE: Yes, I was a commuter. Commuting was an interesting perspective. You don't have a home when you're on campus. The biggest fight is finding a parking space reasonably close to class when you got back-to-backs 20minutes apart. The buses were no better back than they are now. They were smaller, though, the short buses. But as a commuter there was no place to call home. You either hung out in the car or you hung out in the studio or you found someone else who let you just plop for a while. I didn't have a lot of close friends on campus because I wasn't a resident. It was more like a job as a commuter. I came to school in the morning and went home at night before the traffic. Didn't want to spend a lot of time on campus because you were always hitting traffic. Back then Rt. 18 wasn't improved, Ryders Lane wasn't improved well--always backups.
Q: Was Cook Campus a lot of commuters or more of a community campus?
DE: It was more of a community campus. I liked it here, the teaching staff and the professors. Working with them was more human than the other campuses. They spent time with the students as opposed to other parts of the University. Most of the instructors and professors were interested in research; here, they were interested in students and student development. Plus, it was greener. I went from being a frustrated electrical engineering student who wanted nothing but to find a parking space. I was going to the green industry. My whole perspective changed. Landscape Architecture opened my eyes; it's a great profession. You learn how to communicate with people, understand their psyche and build spaces with people, learn to work with other professionals: engineers, planners, architects, sociologists. It has it all.
Q: Can you describe the general atmosphere around Cook?
DE: They started to live here as Cook students, but there were also people living on this campus. I don't think there was ever a student who didn't like living here. There were dormitories before the Newell Apartments went up. We shared space with Douglass campus, we had students at Heylar House, students in the green house, head houses, living upstairs, and I mean those were facilities upstairs that people lived in all around campus. It was always a great place to be. I was here during the liberal years, the tail-end of Vietnam . We had some wacky professors now and again.
Q: Now you spoke of the 18-year-old drinking age, a slight marijuana issue going on. How did these things change what was going on?
DE: Drinking age was lowered from 21 to 18 in 1972, as part of the rebellion to the Vietnam War. I'm old enough to die, I am old enough to drink! We were legal voters. A few pubs popped up on various campuses. At first it seemed OK, it was responsible drinking, but then it started getting out of hand. All the clubs started having their beer parties. It was open drinking on campus; you could have an organized event and have a beer wagon come right in on campus, no wristbands. Marijuana was of common use.
Q: Was it socially acceptable?
DE: It was “don't ask, don't tell.” There were some students who were rather obvious about it; it didn't matter if security guards or campus police were around. Most people put it away. There were some problems in the Newell Apartments. Some students had windows and were growing plants. Of course, the University had no options at that point, which meant expulsion from the University. It wasn't that, I mean, there were a lot of students that experimented, but that was probably the hardest drug on campus at that time. Either alcohol or pot, we didn't have any of these designer drugs that you have today like Ecstasy or I don't know what else is out there. That was about it back then. There was some streaking.
Q: Did you ever streak?
DE: I never streaked and it always happened the when I wasn't here. I did spend a few nights in the Landscape Architecture labs. A couple all-nighters before big due dates.
Q: Was there like a track around the University that the streakers had to go around?
DE: No, they just went right around campus. It wasn't just here; it was around at the College Ave. Campus, Livingston , University-wide.
Q: What about activism? Because that's a huge thing around campus today.
DE: Most of the activist groups back then…it was green, people who enjoyed the environment and wanted to protect the environment. They were always protesting about certain deals that the University wanted to do, land deals, especially along Rt. 1 over by the display gardens and Heylar Woods. They wanted to sell off that land years ago for private development or at least for lease to get some money back into the University. Kids always protested that and so did a lot of the professors. That was also around the beginning or middle of the women's lib movement. Women wanted equality; that was big on the campus, and also the tail-end of the protest for the Vietnam War. Those were the big issues back then, and always tuition.
Q: What was the tuition?
DE: I was a five-year student. I can't remember individual years, but it cost my parents about somewhere between $10,000-11,000 for 5 years, 10 semesters. And back then there wasn't a limit to the number of credits. It was from 12-21 credits, if you could carry that much. Flat rate, no extra. We didn't have minors like they have today. Well, we did but they weren't pushed. It was just Landscape Architecture.
Q: Were you around when the professors decided to cancel final exams? I don't know that it was the same time, it might have been sooner?
DE: I didn't have all the exams here that exist now. It was very liberal; you were evaluated on your coursework more than your examination. You always still had hourlies periodically; certain departments still had final exams but not a lot. In Landscape Architecture, your final exam was your final project. It wasn't that bad. Over at the Rutgers campus, we had hourlies and midterms and finals. Only one year while I was here did we have a four-week winter break. We did have exams, but final exams would always be right after the Christmas holiday. You would be off for two weeks, come back take the exam and you'd be off for two weeks. All classes always started after Labor Day. During winter break, you couldn't get a job because the first two weeks you were studying for finals. So you had two weeks maybe to relax.
Q: What would you say are the top differences between then and now?
DE: The relocation of Dudley Road . It used to be on the other side of the Food Science building. It went right to where the marine biology building is through there to the other side of Food Science. The Environmental Science building was under construction. You don't have as many classes in old buildings. I had classes in an old building down by Heylar House. There was a lot more open space. There was a smaller parking lot but that was, well there were turf grass plots right on that corner. I never went to Ag Field Day when I was in college but I never missed one since I graduated.
Q: Give me the evolution of Ag Field Day.
DE: Well, one of the fun things back then was the afternoon activities, the games in the afternoon. Passion Puddle was just a mud puddle. It was in a pretty poor state of health, but they used to have this great tug of war across the pond. You might have 30-40 guys on each end of the rope and have a couple guys fall in. They had the old antique tractors. They ran for quite a few years. I guess it's the last 5 or 8 years that they didn't have. They used to have a hayride for the kids. Those were fun things. Then the New Jersey Folk Festival came in on the Douglass campus about the same time maybe the same year I graduated. Almost the same age as the Cook Alumni Association.
Q: Would you say that Ag Field Day has calmed down? Did it used to be a much bigger event?
DE: It was a little more wild because back then they served beer. It's always been family orientated, the games, that was their release.
Q: I understand that you also work with the Alumni Association. What was their presence?
DE: They started when Cook became Cook College . I became a member right after I graduated.
Q: Why did you join?
DE: I just figured it was something that an alumnus should do. But I wasn't active up until about three years ago. I just paid my dues and once in awhile I used my ID card to get a discount, but that was about it. Then about three years ago, Joan DeBoer, I knew the family fairly well, said, “Why don't you come see how the dues are spent.” So I spent about a year just coming to meetings, then after a year the president said, “Ok, come on, you've been here for a year now it's time to get involved.” So they appointed me to the Board and also the University Alumni Federation. It's been pretty interesting.
Q: What impacts have you made?
DE: I'm part of Ag Field Day now. I'm not just a spectator, but I'm part of it. I help organize the Cook alumni tent on Ag Field Day. I've been doing that for the past two years now. I like talking to people.
Q: Thirty years ago you were an undergrad, tell me some stories.
DE: It's a little bit difficult because I didn't live here. There were a lot of things that happened after hours, after 5. I wasn't here for the evening hour activities unless I had to stay late to finish a project. I don't know.
Q: Anything with the faculty?
DE: Oh, a great thing, at least in the Landscape Architecture department. Roy DeBoer and Doc Hamilton, they were always at a place down the street called Moscow 's. They were tight with the students all the time. Then there was Jon Webster, he wasn't as much of a party animal as the other two, but they cared about the students. Their day didn't stop when the clock said the teaching hours are over; it went on, their teaching here was part of their life. And that's how a lot of professors here are still like, the older ones; they give you a sense of family. We used to have great little field trips, class field trips. We'd go to different places. Commuters would have all the cars. We had a few trips with Doc Hamilton; we'd go to various places. Or we'd go do plant identification on private property. Doc used to have parties back then. They would lead community service. That was part of development; part of our Landscape Architecture projects was geared towards community, whether it is on or off campus. I was involved with one small group around the Cookie Jar. Another class project was a playground on the tail end of a street in New Brunswick for a day care center. It was neat. I helped with the building. The community was good and it always has been. I think that is unique to Cook. More and more colleges are becoming community-orientated but it has always been here at Cook. Fun things, I don't know, we were just a wacky bunch of kids. When you have professors that join in the fun… Our Halloween parties were great; we'd be over at Holly [?] House, back then it was just an old barn, and it was ours and we'd have our Halloween parties there. We'd have our Christmas parties there; you didn't have to be politically correct, it was a Christmas party. It didn't matter what religion you were, it was just a Christmas party. It would just be a blast; everybody would bring something in. We'd have pumpkin carving. Roy would bring them all in and we'd have pumpkin carving and have contests.
Q: What classes did he teach back then?
DE: Environmental Design Analysis was his favorite, still is to this day. Unfortunately, he's going to retire this June. Forty-nine-year history of teaching here at Rutgers . He always taught Intro to Landscape Architecture and I guess he taught intermediate also. It was hard. He was head of the department back then, and then he was going to take a sabbatical to write a book. That didn't last very long because then the head of the department had health problems and Roy had to step back up. So Roy 's book got put to the side, but he's almost done with that. He's always been there, he's a fixture. I don't want to call him a fixture, he's an icon. I see him frequently because he's in Landscape Architecture and I'm a member of a professional society. So I see him there and I see him at alumni events. It's like I never left.
Q: If you could change two or three thing about Cook what would it be?
DE: I'm not sure that Cook College and the University are even following the plan of how Cook College was supposed to be developed. I don't know if that's good or bad. Skelley Field was supposed to be a mall with facilities, classrooms on either side of it. That never got built because you needed green space. So all the building are going up on various locations around the campus. I don't know. Sometimes it would be nice if we weren't part of the University. That was another issue. There was a push for Cook College to succeed from the University because we were always being short changed on the funding.
Q: When was this?
DE: This was back in the ‘70's, then again in the ‘80's. It happens about every ten years. We're in a fiscal crunch right now. The University sees us as a pool of money, but they can't touch it for anything else because it's land grant. That's what helps us out.