Kathy Machuzak and Mary Machuzak-Harmer Interview

Interview with Kathy Machuzak (‘80) and Mary Machuzak-Harmer ('74)
Date of Interview: October 26, 2003
Interviewer: Kim Mitala
Transcribed by Amanda Carl
Date of Transcription: March 26, 2004
Edited by Dr. Bonnie McCay, October 14, 2004

Q: What positions did you hold at Cook that you feel made your experience there memorable?

MM: I don't think there is one. I think because my sophomore, junior and senior years really revolved around three things: it was women's Ag house, it was working and taking classes in the Forestry and Wildlife department and then the Rutgers Outdoor Club. So really, when I think about my undergraduate degree and my undergraduate years those are the things that stood out because I wasn't really involved with student government per se. I really was more interested in getting involved in the fabric of the Ag school at that time, so those were the three areas that really made a big impact on me and stayed with me afterwards. I'm not really sure if that's exactly answering your question, though.

Q: Ok, were there any noticeable differences between men and women in your classes?

MM: Well, when I started at the Ag school in my sophomore year, there were only about a thousand students at the Ag school and there were roughly a hundred women. It was not unlikely for me to be sitting in a class on the campus and to be the only female, like taking Landscape Planning with Grant Walton. I lucked out in that [in] the classes I took where I was either the only or one of the few women…the atmosphere was very congenial and open and, let's say, professional. Well, I'm trying to think of the word you would say for when we were students, not professional, but kind of equals. It was not the experience that several of my other female colleagues had in some of the other departments that were really more agriculturally orientated, where it was truly down in the muck and the mire and things of that nature. They really had to put up more with a lot more ribald humor, etc. Working in the forestry and wildlife department and getting my master's degree from there, you did have to put up with some of that chauvinism, more so than in some of the other areas, but I never felt that it was demeaning or anything because that was definitely that hunter mentality and that world. It was just different than the rest of the university departments. But again, since there were so few of us on campus at the time, it was kind of a nice camaraderie at some points to try to muck it out together and we probably sought each other out more to try to get help from one another in classes and things of that nature as opposed to my freshmen year which was at Douglass.

MM: I had a whole year at Douglass where I had liberal arts and science classes and then from my sophomore year on I was at the Ag school. So coming from an all female…I mean there was a white glove tea my first week as a freshman. So, I went from that to the Ag school and Ag Field Day and the animals and all that stuff. It was a huge change and it had a very different atmosphere. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it, but what we did have to put up with being in the Ag school was it a male school. It was a very, very male school. The women who were there in the early seventies were a different type of female student than had been there in the sixties. Some of those students were real farm girls and we weren't. We were a lot of city kids, urban, and we were really into the environment as opposed to just agriculture. So there was a lot of that mindset difference as well, where there were guys that were aggies or hunters or foresters or that type and a lot of us were environmental education, environmental science, and plant biology. So it was a very different world, but I have to say that once I left college and went to the real world it was very real to what is out there.

Q: Y our experience at college, you mean?

MM: Yes, so being a one of the hundred out of the thousand prepared me for twenty some years out in the business world where I have worked with tons of engineers, where I began as one female on a senior staff, the only female in a department. So from that perspective, I felt that I was much better prepared for the real world coming from the Ag school than spending all four years at Douglass College being surrounded mostly by women. That would have been nice but would have been an even ruder awakening after having entered the real world.

KM: But you were not in the typical liberal science curriculum, which, if women were going to go and continue on with teaching English v. going on to IT, which you did, that is a whole different set of things?

MM: Yes, more technical. So you also have a different type of woman who would enter those fields, as well.

It was also a time when occupations were changing. When I first joined Douglass, science to them was the truly more traditional biology, molecular biology, physics or chemistry; or engineering was also considered acceptable, whereas in the seventies you could use science for different things. Environmental science at that point was totally new. Nobody really knew what it was or how it was evolving. It was just beginning to evolve at that point. There really weren't a lot of role models for us--female role models for us—to really latch onto in order to understand what it was we were really gearing up for. The culture of being in a totally male-dominated environment, in a closed environment as the Ag school was, like I said before, a fabulous grounding especially in high tech where it was totally dominated by electrical engineers, where it was just like electrical, electrical, electrical. Also having been involved in high tech companies where there are different cultures, male cultures, involved where again it could be very combative. Not to be mean, but it was just the culture of that particular environment. Having lived with it at school, you could take it in stride more. You didn't take it so personally; it was just that environment.

Dean Merritt and I were talking about the women's Ag house, which Sydney and Natalie spearheaded. We were laughing about how difficult it is for only women to live under one roof and we were no exception. Looking back on it, even while in the middle of it, I could understand what Natalie and Sydney were trying to do. But you know, you're at school, you're trying to find your own way and you don't want to be organized, at that point. You don't want to be disciplined. We gave it a go and I think we learned a lot of stuff about living together. Having been a project manager and a project director of many different things, I understand what we didn't do right and what we did do right in that little community. That understanding did stay with me so that I could understand how to get a team working better. But, that Ag house was a great experiment.

I just found out from Dean Merritt that Helyar went co-ed two years after I left, which was cool…

KM: …which is what we had been pushing for ….

MM: Cook apartments happened and they wanted to, again, keep another Ag house and at that point they wouldn't let us do Helyar house.

I'm trying to think of other things about being a female back then. It was different, especially coming from an all female school to being 1 in 10. It was much more like a community compared to what I didn't feel at the other colleges.

But I don't want it to sound like there was just this fish bowl. One of the other reasons why I joined Ag was because I wanted to do science but I didn't want to be confined to one campus. So where I had the luxury of a closed community, a tight community here at the Ag school, I also had the luxury of taking classes anywhere in the University. One of the biggest drivers for me to switch from Douglass over to the Ag school was the flexibility. I had to suffer through all those buffers.. but I had the luxury of taking a class from a totally different perspective and have it be totally acceptable within my particular curriculum. You just didn't have that anyplace else. I don't know how Douglass is today, but if you chose to take a scientific major at that time, you had to take the required classes at Douglass unless it wasn't offered there. Only then, with special permission, could you go outside the Douglass campus for another course. That just seemed crazy to me if you're part of this big University system. It just didn't make sense and, at that point, Rutgers still wasn't accepting women. That came, I think, in ‘74 when I graduated

KM: I think you're right. It was just after, because they did when I was there.

MM: In order to have a scientific grounding but still use all the university resources, the only option I had was to join the Ag school. I know that's not answering the question of what it was like to be a female, but I didn't want you to think that the Ag school was this little bubble and you didn't get out of it. That was hardly the case.

But from a social perspective, since most of your energy and activity was focused here around Passion Puddle, that community was very different, very male dominated and very chauvinistic in many ways. I mean that's just how it was. They hadn't been completely enlightened in all the departments yet and it was a struggle to try and accept it on one hand, try to change it on an individual level and try to get the best experience that you could out of it.

I don't want to make it sound like it was a battle with Neanderthals, because it wasn't that bad. But it was the time, you know, it was the early 70's. The guys were still guys, the professors were still of the 50's and 60's mentality, especially working part-time in the forestry and wildlife department where I got to tell you, it had to be the most chauvinistic out of the entire campus. What are you going to say, but thankfully our father came from the country. So it wasn't a huge shock. You kind of roll with it, but I would like to hear how you had it since you were here six years later.

KM: Well, I started in ‘76, but by that time I was the first resident in Voorhees dorm. I know that because it was just the apartments and they had just built the Voorhees dorm. So I was on the second floor. All the women were on the second floor and then the third and the fourth floor were guys. On the first floor there were more things to do because it was more open (cl) but it was more transfer students and stuff. So that was a big thing. It was, “Look! Wow, there is a dorm where there are men and women in the same dorm.” The floors were separate, you know, we had our own floors. I remember that was a big deal for Rutgers University because they never had that before. You were there for your freshmen year and then your sophomore year you went on to the Newell apartments. It was funny because that guy [Steve] Olson was saying that he was Newell 8 and I said, “I was in Newell 8.” In my sophomore year I was in Newell 8, but by that time I think it had already become a co-ed campus so I didn't have some of the issues that you might have had. It was sort of like walking to classes with everybody. It was this massive group that would say, “Ok it's now Chemistry at such-and-such a time or soils class at whatever time in the morning on Monday.” It didn't seem like there were a lot of divisions at that point, but it did seem like the same type of thing as high school where you had cliques of people who hung together. Whether it was a group of guys and girls or a group of guys or a group of girls or whatever, that always occurred, but that always occurs anyway. I didn't have to fight some battles.

It was kind of interesting how you had some of your classes in different places. A lot of our classes were shared with Douglass, like our chemistry and our biology. Our basic core courses were shared with Douglass, I remember that much, especially chemistry. I think Douglass at the time was mostly liberal arts but they did have some scientific majors and it seemed like after you went into chemistry became a med tech. I remember saying, “I will never be a med tech and I'm glad I'm never in that and if I were a med tech I'd be going out of my mind.” We had a lot of sharing with the Douglass and Cook curriculum. When you had your core science, for instance, I was a Plant Science major, that was all on Cook Campus. I never went to the Rutgers or Livingston campus because there was no need. (NOTE: go back to tape. Is something missing here?) Everything was on Cook or Douglass, although we had our own dorm and own apartments. Socially you had already forged a lot of the ground work, however I still saw some of the things you had to put up with in the working world, because when I got into the working world it was in the 80's and the difference in what I see today verses when I first started is vastly different. There are far more females in higher positions in organizations. There is more diversity when it comes to both race and age and where you're from; you're not just from NJ or not just Michigan or whatever. There are people that you work with that are from Sweden and France and Denmark and Iceland . They are from all over the place, which in 1980 you didn't have. It was a white, male-dominated work culture and that was the same as Cook. You didn't have the great diversity of different races or different religions; it was much more homogeneous on campus. Even though, I think the big diversity was that there were males and females living on the same campus. We didn't have the nice convenience of a nice student center; we didn't have that back then. We had the Nielson Dining Hall to go to for freshman meals, but then once you had the apartments you cooked yourself. We didn't have to deal with some of that stuff because you had already forged through some of that stuff which was good for us.

MM: Society had changed, too, because when I came on campus in ‘70, all the women lived on Douglass and all the guys lived at Rutgers . There was no CAES, there really was no Ag school campus so Rutgers and Douglass had to basically take care of all the social amenities. Anything that wasn't a course, Douglass took care of for the women and Rutgers took care of for the men. So even if I had initially been admitted to the Ag school, I still would have had to go through Douglass because that is where I would have had to stay and eat, get books…that's a good question, where did I get my books? It was probably either Rutgers or Douglass depending on the course, where it was taught. Like we said, those were the two places. The only real Ag place was the Log Cabin. That was the only real social place that we had that was truly just Ag. There were plenty of functions over there that were just Ag school or right here on Passion Puddle, which I'm sure you guys still do.

KM: Right, because I was going to say that my stuff was mostly at Passion Puddle.

MM: Really, it was Rutgers dining hall or it was Douglass Dining Hall or Rutgers Dining Hall. I never really felt any division from the women at Douglass. I mean once you were on the floor, you were just there, you're in the dorm and everyone mixed in and it was cool. Everyone just mixed in and everyone on the floor had different majors. I never felt there were any issues that way. Only when I had a few occasions that I had to deal with the Douglass administration for financial aid or something like that. Then I did feel the division. There was one point where I was in a spot and Douglass refused to help and Cook couldn't because they had absolutely no funding for women. They had no social money at that point. The Douglass administration wasn't thrilled with this. But, the women on campus were cool. So it was nice for the four years I was here, to be able to go from this male-dominated life to have someone understand what I was thinking and feeling. That was good to have, especially because we were at Corwin. Corwin and Gibbons were the best because you had the smaller houses and you were able to work well as a household. You felt like you were in a neighborhood-type of setting. It was weird, too, where you guys had everyone together; we had almost two worlds to walk in and out of. That was how society was at that point, so to me, that was a part of life. Again, I keep saying it certainly stood me a good stead because whether I worked in environmental for my first 6-8 years or in high tech for 20-some after that, those were male dominated. I was working with geologists or soil engineers or environmental engineers or electrical engineers--male dominated societies. This was a good way to be prepared for life in general, I suppose. It would be a good way to say it. I have no regrets. I never felt like I living in a fish bowl. I mean you still have that rude awakening no matter how well your prepared, but it wasn't night and day to say the least. You guys had more of the amenities and even at that point Rutgers was co-ed. I think when I was a freshman, I think that is when Livingston was formed and I think they might have had co-ed at that time.

KM: I know Livingston was definitely co-ed; Rutgers was definitely co-ed when I was there.

MM: I'm pretty sure Livingston , that was our hippie community, was co-ed, all I remember was mud. Everything was being built at that point.

Is that what you were after?

Q: Yeah, you actually brought up a few things that I want to ask about too. The Ag female housing that you said you had, is that the same thing as the Co-op?

MM: We had tried; Sydney and Natalie had tried to get the same thing as Helyar house for women. There were a lot of issues because the alumni were most men and they certainly wouldn't let us do co-ed, that was for sure. There was really very little support, and that's why last night I really saluted to them, because if it weren't for those two, it never would have happened. That was the idea to really have a cooperative house. Now, we had a Corwin house which had a tiny little kitchenette. I think we managed to have a meal once a week, where one of the rooms cooked for the house. We had some sort of a communal thing. The guys would do it everyday, but they had a full kitchen and they really worked on the farm so they had more of that community. I'm assuming it's still the same case, but I don't know if it's still like that. We did as much as we could to replicate that, because what we were looking for was women's community through this male-dominated college. I heard about it through my freshmen year roommate who was a junior. She was a full time Aggie at that time. Basically, they advertised it throughout Ag community of women at that time. There were 15 of us in Corwin and there was a good mix of freshmen to juniors and it was like any other dorm floor, sometimes it worked and sometimes it was miserable. It's just difficult for women or anybody to live together. It doesn't matter how good a person you are, there are just different personalities and different goals etc. Natalie and Sydney did try very hard to get us more involved in really doing what Helyar was doing where was more of a routine. There were different chores and responsibilities, etc. and it worked to some extent. I thought they had kept some sort of log or something back then from the women's Ag house. I know someone interviewed Natalie last night, I don't know if they interviewed Sydney , but I would ask if they had kept any logs from that era. Those are the women you really need to talk to from their perspective, because they were the ones who shepherded it

Q: Natalie Rudolph?

MM: Yes, Natalie Rudolph and Sydney Evans. When the Cook apartments were first put up, they tried very hard to get us a block. I think, because at that point they had already decided to go co-ed, it ran counter to what they were trying to do. I didn't realize that because by the time Heylar went co-ed, I was totally gone from here. I wouldn't have any way to know at that point. Maybe that was what Dick Merritt was thinking all along, “Lets get the apartments settled, get that co-ed, and then maybe the alumni will be a little more amenable to a co-ed Helyar House,” which maybe wasn't one of the goals, but one of the things we were trying to get at that point.

Q: I just wanted to know because I'm very involved with the outdoors club, do you know the exact year that it started or where?

MM: Oh my lord, I used to.

KM: Who was the advisor? Bob Barkman.

MM: It was around before him but he became the advisor. So I'm trying to think, Anne had been in it. So it was 4 years before I became onboard. It had to be early sixties. Only because I came on campus in 70, Anne was 2 years ahead of me. It had definitely been around before my roommate. She was president, I think, two years before me. That means it would have to be early sixties. I can‘t remember if it was any earlier then that. If I ever run across anything, I'll let you know. It was the same thing; there was always a core of 20 or 30 people who had the best stuff, always there to lead the trips. We'd have at least a half a dozen trips on weekends. I learned a tremendous amount there. I date myself learning how to rock climb with hemp and no fixed pins. I was there in the gunks when they put up the first fixed routes and fixed pins. I was there that weekend putting in some of the rock stair that I'm sure some of them are still there. They were very organized and very active by the time I was there in 1970. I think it might have been 1967, I'm not sure, but I might be able to find out. So who is the advisor now?

Q: Doctor Richard Lathrop. He works in the Department of Ecology, Evolution, and Natural Resources. He's in is early 40's. I have met with Bob Markely and Karin Markely. There is an outdoors alumni get together every Thanksgiving weekend. Actually myself and the former president, Jack, who's also my boyfriend, we met up with them last year for that so we just started getting more involved with the alumni. Karin actually came back last Tuesday to give a free kayaking lesson to people in the Douglass rec center pool.

What were the main activities that you guys...

MM: Let me see. Kayaking started when I was around. That was a very new thing. Definitely rock climbing, spelunking, hiking, ice climbing. The trips to New Hampshire were still going on. Kayaking was a big thing that really had just started being popular anywhere at that point. Those were the biggies at that point.

Q: Did you ever go to Virginia or West Virginia ?

MM: Oh yeah, we went to Virginia . We had people going up to New Hampshire constantly. A lot of New York state hikes. A lot of Gunk's. I lived at the gunks for a year. That was a lot of the big stuff at that point.

Q: Were there any other env clubs at that time?

MM: In that time period. I'm sitting here trying to think. There was a very active Earth Day here at that point. There was a lot of political activism at that point because there was still Cambodia .

KM: Wasn't there still Vietnam still at that point?

MM: It was the tail end. There was still the draft. It was more Cambodia focused at that point. Earth Day was very big. I'm trying to think of a formal club and I can't remember.

Q: Was there a 4-H and wildlife club?

MM: I'm trying to think if they were an actual club. Of course, I wasn't active in club thing being so active in the Outdoor Club. The people that were doing their undergraduate work there, I mean they were a group. They just lived and breathed it. I worked there in and out. Professor West was fabulous at giving me part-time work when I need it, money in my pocket. Odd jobs I got, but they were good people. I can't remember, at this point, if there was a political action. There was some sort of environmental political action group. I don't think it was PIRG.

KM: PIRG was active when I was there.

MM: It might have been Pirg, the beginnings of PIRG. I wouldn't swear to it but I remember there was some sort of political action group, at that point. But like I said, there was a lot of ground swell at that point because in the 70's there was Earth Day and that carried through so it was something that kind of kept going.

KM: Ag field day was very big.

MM: Very big. We always gave tours of the farm.

KM: There were always lectures somewhere and trips into Helyar Woods. I remember when you were in college we would go so some of the other activities, not just what was around Passion Puddle. There were a lot of lectures and hikes around campus. You could go into different places at different times and talk to different people.

KM: There was also the Extension Service that did a lot of that stuff, on campus seminars and thing, like Helyar Woods and rhododendrons. They would have shows just to try to draw people in

MM: John Gerwood would probably have more information about that.

KM: He would definitely know more about that. There was always something in Helyar Woods. I went to Log Cabin a lot for different social activities for the Ag school. We always did a lot of classes in Helyar Woods, as well. I'm trying to think. There was just also Rutgers . There was a lot of political activism, at that time. Whether it had to do with the war or the environment, I just remember a lot of stuff going on that had to do with those two big issues at the time. There was always something happening somewhere on the campus.

Q: What made you want to get more involved? You were already involved with working with the forestry and wildlife department. What made you want to actually take the officer position as a treasurer or in the outdoors club?

KM: We came from a family that was very outdoor-oriented. Even though our parents never rock climbed or anything, we did a lot of hiking. My father was from Penn. His family had a farm right at the foot of the Appalachian Trail . We'd hike the Appalachian Trail when we were kids. It was a natural extension of a lot of family values that we had at the time. We still do. When we toured the country as a family, we went to natural parks. We went to see the natural places in the country. We went to Disney World and all that but we went to Yosemite , Grand Canyon , Grand Tetons, Great Smokey, and Blue Ridge . That was how we were raised.

My roommate ended up being president when I was a freshman. It was like a natural extension. She was totally involved with it. I remember my first trip I think I had to borrow all of her clothes because I didn't have real hiking boots or stuff like that. It was, again, a great community of people that were very willing to share their experiences and their joy of those activities. I just kind of got swept in. That is how I ended up meeting Illanka as well meeting her in the Ag house. There was a connection there with some of the women at the Ag school with the outdoor club. Which is not a big surprise because they were common values that we shared and these were two outlets that we were able to use. So, since there were so few women, it was just natural to find yourself in the same organizations. Really for me, I like to be involved with things and I like to lead things. I never was really much of a student government person per se like. Sydney and Natalie, that was their forte. It wasn't something I was that interested in. I do remember being a rep for my department for this Cook planning thing. What I really enjoyed at that time outside of my studies were the outdoor activities. It was just a natural step for me to take the leadership role in the outdoor club in that time. Everybody was really supportive and it really boosted my confidence that I could do that. I learned a hell of a lot. I would definitely do it again. I really would. Yeah, it was lot of work and it drives you crazy and maybe some of my grades suffered because I didn't spend as much time as I should have because I was coordinating trips and all the other stuff. But it was just a great thing to do. To me, it was an extension of the family values we had and an activity that I enjoyed and was able to grow with. Because we'd done hiking but we'd never done rock climbing or caving or kayaking or any of that stuff. So it was a natural extension to take on: Ok these are the other things I can do out there.

Q: Did you feel you got to know more people from other campuses being in this club?

KM: That was another thing, too. Yes, there were people there from the Ag school and people from Douglass but there was also this whole Rutgers and Livingston contingent that I wouldn't have had that connection with. As I said earlier, one of the plusses for me to join the Ag school was to be able to benefit from the University, not just this from this little spot in New Brunswick . The outdoor club, to me, was just another extension of that world. It definitely served that purpose.

Q: When you did work in the Department for Forestry and Wildlife, what kind of jobs did you get? Were those different between men and women?

KM: One of them, which dad always laughed about, was during small game season one year, me and one of my buddies, another guy, as the guys would exit we had to collect there rabbit eyeball. We counted acorns. There it was basically the same. If there was anything with heavy lifting I don't remember. Most of the stuff I did was with other guys. Probably the only thing, actually the other guys did too, that I did maybe a little more for Prof. Webb. He had a survey that he did every year at the Jersey shore on camping down in the Jersey shore area. To find out where the campers physically came from, where they lived. We found a lot of Canadians would make it down and so to him it was part of a land use study that he was doing to understand what kind of people use this land, why did hey come here. It was a great distance. I talked to mostly people from Québec , Nova Scotia . Why do they come here, what's the lore, what do they do, how to they use it, what did they like, all that type of thing. I always had a male compatriot but I ended up doing it more then the others because people skills were my strength.

We counted acorns—that was for Lenny? There were the eyeballs.

MM: Wasn't there a deer study?

KM: There was a deer study for Applegate that we all froze out there. I remember in the pitch black interviewing hunters, tagging the deer, the whole bit. I didn't have to cut anything. I didn't have to take any portions. That was a guy thing. In that aspect, it was equal opportunity. I had to slog through the worst of it with the rest of them. I'm sure that there was stuff that they did that required more physical strength that I can't think of, at this point, that I wouldn't even consider.

There was also the Brigantine…the Canadian geese counting. We had to slog through the muck and the mire to tag the geese. From that aspect, I can't complain. They were good to me. I needed the money and the odd jobs were there. I did do some office work for them when Hazel…, I don't know if she's alive at this point. Hazel Newell, she was the secretary for the department when I was there. It was very rare, though, that I would end up with any. I can't even think, I remember once or twice when they needed a rush job when a bunch of us were there. At that point, you just kind of went with it. But I think that was the difference in that there was this chauvinistic world hunter mentality world and you just basically had to go with it. Sometimes they made it difficult for you and sometimes it was ok. From a working perspective, I didn't feel like I had to do the paper work that the guys had to go out to the field. I'm sure I had to do key punching for Dr. Stout at some point, you know that type of thing, but it was probably minor compared to the rest so.

Q: What do you both do now?

MM: I spend the last 20 years in high tech in computers and networking. One of the most recent jobs I was director of a global team of business systems analysts for 3 Comm, a computer networking firm. I spent the last 10 years in networking and before that 10-12 years in information technology and computer implementation. I did spend about 8 years in environmental. I was living in Denver and I was working in this environmental consulting firm and EPA was trying to hire me and government put a freeze on it, at that point.

KM: It was 1980 when I graduated and there was nothing. That's when we all changed careers.

MM: Since Dr. Stout, when he was here, was very adamant about students being comfortable with computers. Not becoming scientific programmers but at that point you got it. I walk around now and I laugh because we're talking about punching cards; that was our computer system then. Ilonka and I were taking her daughter around a few months ago visiting colleges up in Boston where I live and we're walking through the computer center and we're laughing because we remember walking up on the tray of computer punch cards and if you dropped the tray you were dead. You just cried. So that made it for me when I knew I had to find something else to do. I knew I wanted to go that way because it was technical and I had a small base. That was the next world I wanted to step into. I still want to combine the two some day but the jobs aren't that plentiful these days. So basically it's been computers, information technology, computer networking, high tech. That's about it

MM: Then I graduated in ‘80, there was a huge recession, Jimmy Carter was in office. I wanted to go into NASA and [___?] and space. You would go into government. I was watering plants in different corporate offices and met a lot of Cook graduates who had degrees in Plant Science who were going for their MBA's and I figured, “Why should I go for my masters in plant science when I should just go for my MBA, which is what I did. I got into health care. I worked with J&J in operations and then as a sales rep for many years. That's why I get to see Edward Von der Schmidt; he's a neurosurgeon in NJ. I never met him [before]; he wasn't in my territory. I sold surgical instrumentation for neurosurgery and surgical implants for many years. I moved into diagnostics for J&J, then took a nice severance package, and then went to advertising and consulting in health care industry. Then last year I joined Pharmacia, which just got purchased by Pfizer, and now I'm working for Pfizer in a surgical device which has now just been divested. I'm now going to go through another transition. For the most part the past 20 years, I've been in some sort of health care industry. It's kind of funny because I was in Cleveland two weeks ago at this highlaronin conference which is a molecule that the part that I have, my part is helon which revolutionized ??? surgery. There's doctors' thesis about hileronic acid and there I am and they're talking about the benzene molecule and the OH and the M coming from the.... and I'm like, “gosh this is just like organic chemistry.” I could understand it and that's really scary. It's amazing how the groundwork is. Even though I have a degree in plant science and don't use it, the basics of the curriculum is very scientific and how to solve a problem. Because even when you go to graduate school and get your MBA and meet these people who have a degree in business and here you are with a degree in science and they give you a word problem, I'm like A + B + C = D and they're like A- Q squared minus divided by and they still come up with the same answer. And I'm like, “if you just thought about it logically like you would in science you could come up with the same answer.” And they're doing all this business stuff that they learned to get the same answer. So it's really kind of funny how the scientific background helps you solve problems better. When it all boils down to it, that's what it's all about. It's been interesting career to and it's going to change again I know. But I'm in marketing now in healthcare.

MM: If you were here last night that's what you would have heard from all of us alumni, that half of use aren't working in the field anymore but we wouldn't have traded the four years of being an aggie for anything. It was a fabulous foundation and it was really fairly easy to take the skill set I learned at the Ag school on Cook and have a very successful career in high tech and computers. Being a female director in a networking company is tough. I learned how to deal with guys here and it was the same tough environment working with those guys. I was thinking last night about the women's Ag house and how working together etc. I wish we were more mature back then to do it better, but the experience lets you go anywhere. That's what we tried to thank the deans for last night. It was a great preparation, it was a great base, we learned how to problem solve.

KM: We learned how to deal with people who were so different from where they grew up, whether you were from middle suburbia to Newark to mid-Penn. We had a gal from the Virgin Islands who was part of our inner circle. You got to figure out how to get along with people and sometimes you do, but that's just like anything else. In a dorm floor, you have to deal with those you like and you don't like and that carries you through the rest of your life. So all of us last night just said, “thank you, thank you, thank you.” I really should have gotten up and told everyone, “don't be upset if you're working in this field for a while and it turns out the world changes.” The skill set you guys have from what you're doing right now is perfect. I do this stuff when I have a new team. This stuff is going to carry you forever no matter where you end up. If you do happen to end up outside environmental, who cares? I think Dean Locandro made a good point at the end; it's really how you impact another person.

KM: It's a ripple effect. You impact one person who impacts another person who impacts another person.

MM: You guys are getting a fabulous opportunity being here. I still can't believe it's been thirty years. What was great to see last night, and you heard this morning from Dean Merritt and Dean Hess and Dean Locandro, was the same stuff I heard 30 years ago, build a community and keep it.

KM: Those are the things that you use in marketing, when trying to get a product out to the people who especially need it or who don't understand. Part of it is that you work with small groups or you target groups, you work with the community because those are the things that will help you bring your product along, where you'll get recognition. You are using the same principles and basic marketing techniques to help your own community and get the college going.

MM: I think you guys have a great opportunity here in that it's good to see the school has changed with the times. I sit and listen to you say your majors are.

KM: You have majors and minors! We never had that.

MM: The closest we had was what I had, environmental science, because you could lump anything in there that made sense. But you guys have natural resource management, etc. that … tells me it succeeded in staying current. It didn't stay where it was 30 years ago.

KM: It's not just an agriculture school. If it were an agriculture school, you wouldn't be here.

MM: It isn't even the Cook of 1975, because in 1974 we all came to join the Ag school. So we were one of the first groups and [we] said, “I don't want just Cook on my diploma.” That wasn't what we started on. It's more than just environmental science in this college. They've done the right things. Being in business the last 28 years, we see that these are the right ways to go about looking at problems and addressing issues. The way they set up your curriculum, that to me was the best. If I had come in here and heard, “I'm a geology major or I'm an animal science major, “ I would have been saying, “Oh these poor kids.”